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The truth is that most people weren’t really aware of the fact that this occurred.
事实是，大多数人并没有真正意识到这一事实的发生。
One of the things that’s interesting is that sulfites, at least at the time, are not something that had to be labeled on wines in Italy.
有趣的是，至少在当时，亚硫酸盐在意大利的葡萄酒中是不需要标注的。
And wine does have some naturally occurring sulfites as well.
而且葡萄酒中也确实含有一些天然存在的亚硫酸盐。
So, even if a label said contains sulfites, it wouldn’t be clear if those were added sulfites or naturally occurring sulfites.
因此，即使标签上写着含有亚硫酸盐，也不清楚这些是添加的亚硫酸盐还是天然存在的亚硫酸盐。
So there was nothing in the wine bottles themselves that would indicate that a change had been made.
因此，在酒瓶本身中没有任何东西表明已经发生了变化。
If you read the wine connoisseur blogs, which- Which I don’t. They’re pretty fun. People can debate some seemingly tiny details.
如果你阅读葡萄酒鉴赏家的博客，那——我其实没有读。也挺有趣的，人们可以辩论一些看似微小的细节。
Some real wine lovers did become aware of the change simply because the wine tasted different. Some of them liked the new taste. I was going to say was it better? Did it taste better?
一些真正的葡萄酒爱好者确实仅仅因为葡萄酒的味道不同而意识到了这种变化。他们中的一些人喜欢这种新味道。我想说的是它更好吗？它尝起来更好吗？
Some think so, but there are others who say it’s completely uninteresting now. Really?
一些人这么认为，但是还有其他人说现在完全变得无意义了。真的吗？
It’s become just like every other wine in the region.
它变得就像该地区的其他葡萄酒一样。
Was he using the natural wine making as a branding and marketing advantage before he decided to change tacts?
在他决定改变策略之前，他是否将天然葡萄酒酿造作为品牌和营销优势？
Was he gaining some sort of distinction as a result of sticking to this philosophy? I think so.
他坚持这种哲学，是不是因此而获得了某种殊荣？我想是的。
His staunch stance is what brought a lot of attention his way.
他坚定的立场给他带来了很多关注。
So, you study strategy, you look at how organizations innovate.
那么，你研究战略，你观察组织如何创新。
I’m wondering if you saw this as a situation where by virtue of the fact that he was so beholden to the natural process and to his philosophy, was he limiting his ability to innovate as a business person?
我想知道，你是否认为，他如此秉持他的自然原则与哲学，是否限制了他作为一个商人的创新能力？
Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. So, I actually have a paper in a completely unrelated industry, the air taxi industry, that I had written many years prior to this case that explores this phenomenon.
是的。绝对是。是的。所以，我实际上有一篇一个完全不相关的行业的论文，空中出租车行业，那是我在这个案例之前很多年写的，探讨了这种现象。
And one of the things that I found in the paper is that revoluTionary founders who are really committed to particular principles and particular nascent markets can make commitments and then also, generate audience expectations that can actually restrict their ability to learn and enact changes that they need to make as an industry evolves and as their own business evolves.
我在这篇论文中发现的一点是，真正致力于特定原则和特定新生市场的革命性创始人可能会做出承诺，然后也会产生受众期望，这实际上会限制他们学习和实施变革的能力，而随着行业和自身业务的发展，他们需要做出这些变革。
What I found really interesting about Frank’s case is that he didn’t fall prey to this trap.
我发现弗兰克的案例真正有趣的地方在于，他没有落入这个陷阱。
Whether or not you think that his decision was ultimately the right one, he was willing to revisit his identity as a winemaker and even his philosophy as a winemaker in order to innovate and adapt to new conditions.
无论你是否认为他的决定最终是正确的，他都愿意重新审视自己作为酿酒师的身份，甚至是他作为酿酒师的理念，以便创新和适应新的条件。
Yeah. I mean, that seems like something our faculty talk about a lot is keeping your mind open to new ways of doing things. That’s right.
是的。我的意思是，这似乎是我们的教师经常谈论的事情，即保持开放的心态接受新的做事方式。 没错。
But another thing our faculty talk a lot about is knowing your true north and knowing what you stand for.
但我们的教师经常谈论的另一件事是，了解你的“正北”方向，了解你的立场。
And what I love about Frank’s story is that it shows that there can sometimes be a tension between these two things. Yeah. How do you choose what to do? Do you think he went through this?
我喜欢弗兰克的故事 是因为它告诉我们 有时这两件事之间会有矛盾 是啊，你是怎么选择的？ 你觉得他经历过这些吗？
I’m sure he did go through the mental calculations about the trade-offs that he was making by introducing the sulfites.
我确信他确实经历了精神上的计算，关于他通过引入亚硫酸盐所做出的权衡。
What was he thinking would’ve happened if he didn’t?
如果他没有这样做，他认为会发生什么？
He could have lost the whole… He could have lost the whole harvest and there’s a question around could the winery have survived?
他可能会失去整个……他可能会失去整个收成，而且酒庄是否能存活下来也是个问题。
He believes that it could have, but it would’ve been a massive financial hit that could have changed the course of growth that he previously anticipated.
他认为这是有可能的，但这将是一个巨大的财务打击，可能会改变他之前预期的增长进程。
I’m sure his team was happy that he made the decision that he did.
我确定他的团队为他做出的决定感到高兴。
Tiona, this has been a great conversation, as I knew it would be.
蒂奥娜，正如我所料，这次谈话非常愉快。
I’ll give you one last question, which is if you’d like our listeners to remember one thing about Frank’s case, what would it be?
我想问你最后一个问题，那就是如果你希望我们的听众记住弗兰克案件的一件事，那会是什么？
The one thing that I would love listeners to remember about the Frank Cornelissen case is that it’s incredibly important to be disciplined about one’s identity, principles, philosophy.
关于弗兰克·科内利森的案例，我希望听众记住的一件事是，对自己的身份、原则和理念保持自律是非常重要的。
Whether that’s as a winemaker, as a founder, or as a leader.
无论是作为酿酒师，还是作为创始人，亦或是作为领导者。
But it’s also important to recognize that an identity that’s fixed or principles that are too rigid can actually prevent much-needed change, progress and learning.
但同样重要的是要认识到，固定的身份或过于僵化的原则实际上会阻碍亟需的变革、进步和学习。
One of the things that I find fascinating about what has happened to Frank since 2018 is that he has faced similar weather conditions a number of times now, and that’s the reality of wine making, facing climate change.
自 2018 年以来发生在弗兰克身上的事情让我觉得很吸引人，其中之一就是他现在已经多次面临类似的天气状况，这就是葡萄酒酿造面临气候变化的现实。
There will be increasing unpredictability and so there’s a question around whether his staunch stance prior to 2018 was actually suited to the context that he’s now operating in.
将会有越来越多的不可预测性，因此存在一个问题，即他在2018年之前的坚定立场实际上是否适合他现在所处的环境。
Yeah, that’s a great takeaway, and I’m looking forward to trying his wine that you’re going to help me score.
是的，这是一个很好的收获，我期待着尝试他的葡萄酒，你会帮我买到的。
I think you said that in the beginning of the conversation. Yes. Promises were made. thank you for joining me on Cold Call. Thank you.
我想你在谈话开始时就说过了。是的。已经做出了承诺。感谢你参加我的《Cold Call》节目。谢谢。
