Hi, everyone and welcome back to 酒馆. Hi安澜.

Hi, Lulu. Hi, everyone.

And also, the NHS workers they don't really get paid that well. I get the sense that, you know, even Adam does not really get paid that well let alone the more junior doctor like Shruti.

No. this is the whole ridiculous thing is that junior doctors sometimes they are actually paid more if they worked in a fast-food restaurant than as a doctor, but now I wouldn't say it's getting better.

But in recent years there have been so many strikes, even consultants have gone on strike. I read in the news today that I think they've made a pay deal now, but ultimately, this is the one strike that people generally support, because I would say in the UK among the vast majority of the population, we have a lot of respect for NHS workers. We may complain about the system. We may complain about the politicians. But we don't really complain that much about the doctors or nurses.

我从跟英国人的交谈里面, 我也感受得很明显, 大家只要谈到 NHS他们公立医疗体系里面的医护人员, 大家都会觉得非常尊重.

During Covid times, there was like clapping for NHS workers, right？

Yeah.

就是说为他们鼓掌, 还有给他们带什么吃的放的什么他们的车上这种,觉得他们都是这个英雄白衣天使, but they generally have a lot of things to complain about the system.

Yeah.

Although probably you guys all know that currently there's no better alternative.

No one would ever say, let's get rid of the NHS, nobody would actually turn out and say “okay, we need to go back to medical care that you have to pay money for.”

Well, exactly. Because to be honest to get rid of your NHS is getting rid of the concept of welfare state essentially.

Yeah.

就是整个福利国家的,你就全部都会要取消掉.

Yeah.

I don't know if you guys remember that what we talked about. So in the UK this is what happens. There's basically dual track. So you have the NHS which is for everyone which is free for everyone, even for people who, for example, even when I lived in the UK although I did not have permanent residency, I was not a citizen, a national. However, because I lived there for long enough period, I also had access to NHS.

Yeah.

So that is one.

The other one is the private health care, is the private hospitals who charges you ￡200 for 115 minutes consultation.

Quite a few people have private medical care in the UK, you can get private medical insurance and some NHS doctors they do also work in the private sphere so that they can basically get more money.

This is completely normal, right? And it's allowed?

It’s allowed and it is completely normal. So some people they do go for private medical care, but private medical care can only go so far.

So for example, for very complex procedures, you still more likely go to the NHS.

I think it's exactly the same in China about like sort of international hospitals. You get really good service. You don't have to wait for that long you get really just good ambiance.

Yeah.

However, the best doctors complicated cases like complications are still better treated at sort of the big public hospitals.

In fact, in the TV show, there was a period of time when Adam went to work at a private clinic.

Yeah.

And everything was super nice. He was given this almost like five-star hotel type of room just to rest in, and then everything just looked like a luxury resort. However, the woman who came in the like his patient had complications and eventually they couldn't deal with it.

So middle of the night when she went into labor and was losing massive amount of blood, they had to rush her back to public hospital to NHS hospital.

Yeah. I’ve experienced that, for example, I’ve had in China like private medical care, I’ve had to still go to a public hospital. And it's a bit strange, because a nurse from the private place would just take me to a public hospital. It was like, what's the point?

What's the point?

What's the point of that？

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. What are some of the common complaints people have about NHS, before we were talking about the situation with doctors and nurses people within the system? What about general public？

General public I would say it's around waiting lists.

Oh, yeah.

For example, if you have to go for non-serious surgery, then you can be on a waiting list for months and months and months, and it can be very difficult to get an appointment.

Even now it's very difficult to get an appointment with a GP.

GP它是 primary care, 相当于有点像我们的社区医生, 就是全科医生kind of like community health care, but even that is difficult.

Even that is now getting very, very difficult. I remember when I was a child, doctors or GPs used to actually be able to come to your home and do house calls, now that's completely unheard of.

Yeah, even booking an appointment is difficult. Especially if they feel like it's not life threatening.

No.

But one thing I have to say is that is life threatening. For example, if they're suspecting things like cancer, they're normally very quick.

This is why they were kind of, I think, sort of like Chinese students who are studying in the UK, they summarized it as the NHS 救命不治病, they save lives, but they don't necessarily treat patients.

No. And I would say that is also one of the main complaints, because you can get people in a lot of pain, but because it's not life threatening, they just have to deal with the pain while they wait for an appointment or they wait for surgery.

Emm, the backlog as well because of COVID.

Yeah.

这个backlog, 就是当时COVID疫情那几年留下来的那个积压, 那些cases, 那些appointment.

So now it's getting even longer if you watch, let's say BBC news or whatever every few days you're gonna hear NHS NHS back backlog.

And also under-staffing as well. The NHS is very reliant on getting staff from other countries. So for example, many of our nurses come from the Philippines.

The Philippines, yeah.

Because Philippines is an English speaking country. Also there is a very, very kind of high percentage of nurses and doctors and medical professionals from that country.

True.

Which in itself is not a great thing because we're bringing doctors and nurses from other countries and their countries also need doctors and nurses as well.

But can I just be very blunt? It's also perhaps because they're more comfortable with less pay. I think that's the whole reason why NHS workers especially in nurses, paramedics, they constantly go on strike is because literally I was looking at the salary that they were saying that they were getting is really not enough to live in places like London.

It's not, and that's why I would say that people generally if a doctor goes on strike, you see on the news for example the BBC who actually speaks to these doctors, and they will speak to general public like what you think of the strike. And nobody would say doctors and nurses shouldn't go on strike.

Yeah.

They say things like, well, if they are going on strike, there's a good reason why they're going on strike.

So the people are basically side, siding or sympathizing with the doctors and nurses.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Everybody knows the situation really. And also for those of you who are going to say move to the UK or you are gonna study there or work there for a prolonged period of time. If you get into NHS the NHS system, you have to get ready for listening to understanding different type of accents because like 安澜 said, there's so many different accents.

Yeah.

They're definitely not what you would picture as British accents.

No.

And you know it's really sad. The reason why I say this TV series is really really depressing, and perhaps why it's got such good reception like people liked it, it is because it's so realistic to the point that most of these especially medical dramas, they want to show the good side of hospitals doctors, even if they are baddies they want to show like eventually there's hope.

Yeah.

But remember the Shruti character, the junior doctor who studied so hard who worked so hard, and finally starting to get the hang of it, starting to get into this job. And then she just said she actually passed exam. She actually said she's gonna be on a vacation, and actually Adam says, just let me take you out another day to... for this celebration. And then she just looked, to me, she just looked completely empty.

Yeah.

But then she walked away and then she committed suicide. She took her own life that day.

And then the last word after she said goodbye to Adam, she walked away and she just mouthed something she said “I'm sorry, I really did try.”

Yeah.

And that was so depressing because it just feels like what else can you do really?

Well. Exactly.

The mental health crisis among doctors and medical professionals in the UK, it is really really bad, because they're so understaffed, because they have to do shifts. They could experience the most traumatic things anyone can imagine, and then they have to go back to work the next day. They don't even have time to process it.

And this is actually why Adam Kay, the writer, who wrote the memoirs. This is why he left the NHS, because he had to deal with such a traumatic experience. And he asked for a week off just so that he can get his head around what happened, and he had to go back to work the next day.

I cannot really imagine working 90+ hours week. We're talking about, I mean I work long hours, but I don't have to deal with life and death.

No.

I don't have to deal with the abuse or bullying or literally losing patience, right? And to work for that long, and without really a lot of things in return, and that's just going to burn you out.

No absolutely.

I think sometimes in the public hospital system in China, I think medical professionals I know some people who are listening to our show. You guys are doctors or nurses or other medical professionals, I'm sure how that feels or if you have family members who are medical professionals, I'm pretty sure you know how that feels.

So anyhow, it is a really good show. But I will have to remind you it is going to be really depressing.

It is very depressing, but it's so well done.

And again, it's so realistic because one of the things that you can see is that many of the extras are actually hospital staff.

哦, 很多配角就是NHS里面的医护人员。Okay.

They're not actors, many of them are actual medical professionals who are the extras like nurses, support staff admin.

Okay. And on that note, we're gonna wrap up here. I'm sorry if we really got you depressed.

I'm depressed now.

But sometimes it's good to have TV shows like that. They're not just there to entertain to make you feel happy.

Exactly. And this is why we have discussed this as well. It's with our podcast, we talk about Britain, we talk about America. And it's important to note that even though all the countries are different, experiences are different, cultures are different, the fundamental facts remain the same. China has amazing doctors, amazing nurses who spend so much time, so much effort, and work so hard to protect, cure, and save patients, and that's just like the UK as well. So...

It's the human connection really.

It’s always that human connection and this is what we hope to show with our TV picks, it showing the good side and the bad side.

The more realistic side. On that note, we're gonna wrap up here whether you actually go to watch it or decide not to torture yourself. Well. That's our TV picks for the week.

Well. If you do watch it, let us know in the comments section what you think.

Or if you have other medical shows that you can recommend or any other shows that you want us to talk about, leave us a comment in the comment section.

Hopefully a little bit more...

Upbeat.

Upbeat.

All right. Thank you, 安澜, for coming to the studio.

Thank you.

We'll see you next time.

Bye.

Bye.