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The interesting thing about this approach of being very expansive in the supply chain, both reverse supply chain and forward supply chain, where it will end up in ultimate disposition once you discard your shoe or recycle it,
有趣的是，这种方法涉及的供应链非常广，包括正向供应链和逆向供应链，一旦你把鞋子丢掉，或是送到回收加工厂，鞋子最终都会得到处理。
the interesting thing there is it really does get you to focus, if you want to minimize that total number, on where you get the biggest bang for the buck.
有趣的是，如果你想把鞋子总数降到最低，这确实会让你把注意力集中在你能获得最大回报的地方。
I think there's been a lot of critique of other types of companies whose sustainability efforts are highly visible, but also highly symbolic.
有很多人批评其他类型的公司，这些公司在可持续性方面的努力非常明显，而且也很有象征意义。
You can have a lot of solar power at your headquarters.
这些公司的总部会有很多太阳能。
But if your products is where the impact is, then that's really where you ought to be making your investments.
但如果你的产品有影响力，那么就应该在产品上进行投资。
That's a real critical piece of an authenticity play if you're trying to be a sustainable brand.
如果你想努力做一个可持续性的品牌，这是一个真实戏码的关键部分。
Yeah. Well, let me ask you this, Mike.
对。我问你个问题，迈克。
How sustainable is this business model, I guess, would be the question. So sustainability is the great focus for Allbirds.
我想，这种商业模式的可持续性将是一个问题。可持续性是Allbirds的重点。
But is this the kind of thing that can be sustained indefinitely, given the added investments that you probably have to make in R&D to continue to be authentic in that way?
但为保持真实性，你可能需要在研发上进行额外的投资，那么这是一种可以无限期持续下去的东西吗?
I think what's really interesting here is to look at the innovation processes that Allbirds has engaged in.
我认为真正有趣的是去看看Allbirds所参与的创新过程。
So some of the innovation is with their own employees on design and on choices of material.
一些创新来自于他们自己的员工在设计和材料的选择上。
But they're working hard with existing suppliers who have scale and the technology to create, for example, what they call SweetFoam, which is the substitute for a fossil fuel based product that sits between your foot and the outer sole. That's the part that gives you cushion.
不过，他们正在努力与现有的成规模的、可以创造技术的供应商合作，例如，有一种被称为SweetFoam的产品，这是一种化石燃料产品的替代品，位于双脚和外鞋底之间，也就是缓冲鞋垫部分。
When they did that, they could have tried to create that in a proprietary basis.
当他们这么操作时，他们本可以尝试在专利的基础上进行创造。
But in fact, they're working with their supplier, trying to get others to adopt that material as well as a way to drive down its cost, to increase economies of scale.
但事实上，他们正在与供应商合作，试图也让其他商家采用这种材料，作为一种降低成本，促进规模经济的方法。
There's an interesting play.
这出戏真有趣。
Should we try and do this and keep it proprietary? Or should we try and get this to be spread across our own industry and across other industries?
我们应该试着做专利，并保持专利权吗？还是应该试着把它推广到我们这一行，甚至其他行业?
And so far, in a lot of these dimensions, they're trying to create scale.
到目前为止，他们在很多层面都在努力创造规模。
Think about the wool side. They're involved in trying to create a certified wool to be grown in a sustainable way.
拿羊毛来说，他们正在努力创造一种以可持续的方式生长的、获得认证的羊毛。
Again, could they have created their own certification scheme or their own standards?
同样，他们是否可以创建自己认证的方案或标准?
Sure. But then they don't really have scale.
当然可以。但是他们没有真正的成规模。
You want to have a lot of choice on the supply side, so you can drive them down an experience curve, let them realize some economies of scale.
你希望在供应方面有很多选择，这样你就可以让他们沿着经验曲线走，让他们实现规模经济。
And then you can buy it almost as cheaply or sometimes as cheaply as existing less sustainable materials.
这样你就可以买到几乎和现有的不可持续性材料一样便宜，有时甚至一样便宜的材料。
