Hi everyone, and welcome back to Global Village. 欢迎回来【小酒馆·大世界】. We're very happy to get Simon back, Simon from New Zealand. Hi, Simon.

Hey Kia ora.

Let's talk about the differences. Would you say there are some differences in the not just mentality but personality like this sort of national psyche? There's a difference between your average Aussie and average Kiwi in terms of personality.

I think it’s a general rule. New Zealand is very concerned about being polite. We don't like confrontation. Most kiwis hate confrontation. We're very indirect which can be quite annoying, I think for many people; Australians, I found they are a lot more decisive, a lot more direct, a lot more self confident.

Sometimes can be even a bit aggressive Australians.

It's quite interesting.

So even you look at our national foreign policies, so how do our two countries interact globally? New Zealand will always just try and get along with everyone when we make foreign policy decisions, it's usually based on the united nations. Just trying to figuring out what is the right thing to do and sticking to it. We hate being told what to do, America.

Australia, on the other hand, is obviously quite staunchly American. They're the big country in the Pacific. They know they're the big country in the Pacific. They expect other people to follow what they say.

For lack of a better word, it's kind of like a bully mentality, isn't it？

Yeah, they're the United States of the Pacific.

It's like the original bully kind of idea. But this is just, I'm saying for lack of a better word, again, we're not trying to make over generalizations in that sense. You're more than welcome to share your opinion in the comment section if you disagree with us.

Now coming back to this, the other difference that is quite obvious is that the fact the native people are different, right? The native people in Australia, they're called aboriginal people. And then in New Zealand is obviously Maori. Would you say that Maori people play a much bigger role in New Zealand compared with aboriginal people, aborigines in Australia？

Yeah, I think so. I would say the Maori population that certainly had a very terrible time at the hands of British colonialism. There is certainly a much greater recognition of Maori culture in wider society than perhaps of aboriginal culture in Australian society. I knew the New Zealand government has... it's over the last 20 years been trying to work with the various Maori tribes, the Iwi, to recognize them to and to try and provide some some support for... an assistance, for the terrible things that happened to them.

Australia, the Australian government, I think is now beginning to look at this. But I think while in New Zealand, the main like most New Zealanders accept the importance of Maori culture and Maori and Maori language. I would say that still there are a lot of Australians that would not have the same attitude towards the aboriginal people.

I think this is something that most of our audience know very little about. So it's... if you're interested, look into it, at least that's what I feel like from an outsider. I could definitely see Maori people have more of a presence in New Zealand compared with aboriginal people in Australia, but I could be mistaken.

Now let us talk about, well, moving away from these very, very heavy topics about history. Let us talk about something a bit more lighthearted. What is or what are some of the things or topics that are going to or are likely to provoke a fight between Aussies and Kiwis, or are there any?

No, there's really not that much. Of course we joke about rugby. I won the rugby. No, you won the rugby, cricket, who's got the better beer, 啤酒, 非常重要, but no, there's really not much, people to people, New Zealanders and Australians usually get on pretty well.

What about Kiwis and Aussies living overseas? Do you feel more of an affinity camaraderie that 海外的新西兰人和澳大利亚人, 因为都是南半球的and do you have that sort of...

Yeah, we do to some extent, because I've obviously lived in a number of different countries, and because there's not many New Zealanders around the world, there's not many New Zealanders anywhere to be honest.

I mean sheep of New Zealand is, but people of New Zealand is no. When overseas we get drawn to other nationalities, it's quite common for New Zealanders and Australians to hang out together overseas, just as it is with New Zealanders and Brits, but I've got a couple of examples back in the early 2000s, late 90s, early 2000s, when I first went to China, there were so few New Zealanders living in Beijing that the embassy used to take turns with the Australian embassies, the New Zealand embassy and Australian embassy used to take turns to run a barbecue like a beer and barbecue event. And so one month, all the Australians and New Zealanders would come to the New Zealand embassy for beer and barbecues. The next month we'd go to the Australian one.

It's quite interesting, so... it's nice. There's the former Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd.

Oh, 陆克文。

Yes, he was based in Beijing at that time I think from memory and I remember like actually having a beer and barbecue with him and then he went on to be the prime minister which is pretty cool.

I remember ages ago you also told me a story about your running with Aussies when you are living in South Korea in Seoul.

Okay, so this is not gonna paint me in a particularly good life, I suspect, we'll give it a go. I was living in South Korea, in Seoul at the time, and I was dating a Korean lady. We wanted to or she wanted to see what’s New Zealand's fascination with rugby like. What's so great about rugby?

So I had a look around and I found that there was a bar in Itaewon which is a popular bar area in Seoul that was playing rugby on the TV screen. So off we went, so it was her a couple of her friends and myself. We went to the spa and it just so happened that it was a GI bar, a bar used by American soldiers.

American soldiers, 美国大兵。

USGI’s.

We were in the bar. We were watching the game and these two GI’s American soldiers ended up deciding to join us and started hitting on my girlfriend and her friend.

I was very polite initially and I just sort of said, excuse me, please, can you leave us alone? But they were very insistent, very aggressive, very pushy. And I perhaps had one two many drinks and I turned around to one of them. I don't know how I did it.

You were basically trying to provoke them.

No, not provoke because they were much bigger than me, but as perhaps I drunk a bit too much and I said something I shouldn't have done, I won't say on here what I said, anyway, the guy, one of them the one I said to, he sort of turned red, looked like he was about to explode and then stormed off, and he walked away. I thought, yes I bet the US Army I win.

He went to get his buddies.

He came back with about seven of his mates, or eight of his mates.

And now he himself was about 8 times larger than me, in all dimensions, he was built like a mountain and his friends were built like mountains. So that was... it was a bit like me taking on 64 people. So, WOW, it was terrifying and they came in and they surrounded me. And I thought, right, this is where I die, I die in Korea.

Now there are a few New Zealanders in the bar and they sort of watched and saw that there was this kind of thing gonna happen and they just sort of stood there to see what would happen.

But there were some Australians and those Australians saw my T-shirt with the silver fern on it, and they felt...

That’s sign of New Zealand.

It's a symbol of New Zealand, and they saw the silver fern and they felt incensed that there was some Americans that were going to beat up one of their fellow southern hemisphere people. And suddenly this group of Australians just jumped on the American soldiers. And this massive bar fight started, that massive bar fight.

Well, did you just crawl out?

I just crawled out and hid under a table.

You're right. That doesn't paint you in... a very good light.

Anyway, the Australians managed to destroy the US the American soldiers. Then right at the end that's when the New Zealanders came and get a little bit of kick at the end and just... And then all the military police came in and they arrested all the American soldiers and the bar went back to normal.

That's an experience. I think there's no better example to showcase the camaraderie that we were just talking about. If the southern hemisphere unite that sort of thing.

We joke and we make fun, but I think in the overall New Zealanders and Australians like to stick together, in geopolitics we've got the idea of this the Anzacs spirit which is New Zealanders and Australians fighting together.

Okay, I think we're gonna probably wrap up this topic here. It's certainly very interesting to see from your perspective not just as a Kiwi but also as someone who traveled extensively and also lived in other cultures how you see this sort of friendly rivalry between neighbors, and thank you again for coming to the studio to share with us these unique experiences and perspectives. Thank you, Simon.

No, you’re welcome, happy to be here, enjoyed it. So Ka kite, and we'll see you next time.

All right, we'll see you next time. Bye bye.