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Hello everyone, and welcome to America Under the Microscope, advanced episode. Hi, lulu.

Hi, James. We're gonna continue to talk about the comedy again？

Yes. And I want to start off by asking you a question since we've been talking about all this stand-up comedy, and there's a lot of different styles of comedy. What kind of stand-up comic or comedy do you like listening to?

Not just listening to, but also watching

Also watching.

Honestly, I like very bitter comedians, the ones that are smoking and drinking on stage, like Dylan Moran.

I know Dylan Moran, that seems very… be a much more kind of English style of stand-up comic. American comics tend to be a bit more, I want to say, upbeat cuz I still cover…

I would actually say upbeat.

You would say upbeat?

I think, you see British comedians, stand-up comedians, a lot of them, they tend to be more bitter in a way, more sarcastic.

I do notice that, very sarcastic.

Very sarcastic, very dry. But I also like observational humor, especially some comedienne, like female comics, like Ali Wong. I know she's out there, I know she makes a lot of dirty jokes, but if you dig deeper into her comedy, there's so much observational content about the actual challenges females are facing. I think to me that's pretty cool. What about you James?

So I really like comedians that really do analyze like trends or absurdities in society.

Absurd is good.

I really like comedians that are able to analyze in a humorous way like things that are going on in the world that are make no sense or really silly. One of my favorite comics right now is a guy named Bo Burnham. His comedy is much more musical based, so he sings and stuff. But his songs always have a twist and clever observations about the world.

It's a bit like Bill Bailey in the British comic, and also musician.

Well, the musician part, yes. But the comedy is a bit different than Bill Bailey’s.

Since we were sharing our favorite comedians. Have you ever been to a live show?

I have been to two, both of them were improv shows. One of them was a pretty famous group who came to my university when I was a student. I went to that show when I was…that was hilarious, because these were pretty big names improve comedy.

And the show they put on for the students was outstanding. But they never got invited back because some of their jokes were pretty offensive. And another one was an improv show here in Beijing, put together by local theater troop, which was… it was entertaining, they had some good humor and… it wasn't perfect because it was obviously that they were amateur. But it still was an enjoyable show.

I've been to shows by both professional comedians and also amateurs. I mean if you go to an amateur show, you know it’s an amateur night, you sort of adjust your hope and expectation.

You should really temper your expectations, like this guy is new, let's give him a chance.

But I always remember going to a pretty famous comedy club in London. And that experience was really cringy, because it was kind of, not really amateur night, but like new stars, like new comers in the comic world.

Some of them are really good, shows a lot potential; but some just are really bad, they bombed so bad. There were hecklers, and there were people who were drinking, and towards the end I felt embarrassed for those comedians that bombed.

Apparently, bombing is something all comedians have to go through, because your jokes are not gonna hit with everybody, becoming comedian is pretty hard work.

Man, I can just only imagine how challenging it is. I mean as teachers, sometimes we do a lot of public speech, we teach a new bunch of students and sometimes we get hecklers.

Yeah, but I we have tools to do with them, just get out.

But yeah, if you wanna be comedian it's like you have to think what they have to go through, they have to start off at these small open mic at nights at these comedy clubs, and hopefully get invited back to have a regular spots, and keep writing new and funny material.

Actually have you watched that show that hit show called The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel?

I've never watched it, but I know that it's about…

A comedienne.

A comedienne doing that trying to make it in the comedy world.

…trying to make it big.

Initially when you are trying to get the regular spots at the comedy clubs, they don't give you the good time slots.

No, because they're gonna reserve the good time for commedians they know that produce revenue, they want people to come in to buy drinks. That's how they make money.

Exactly, you're just begging… if you’re new comer, you just really begging them to give you even just 10 minutes to get on the stage, and possibly getting booed.

But nowadays I would assume a lot of those are switching to online especially with COVID and with social media.

So that's one thing that comics are able to do now is they can do comedy scenes online through social media and distribute in that way, like there's a really popular comedian that is popular around the world, especially… Nigel Ng, people might know him as Uncle Roger. I mean he is a stand-up comic.

Yeah, but he wasn't very successful as a stand-up comic.

No. So he adapted to be, used through YouTube, and has found great success.

Yeah, he has found his own little niche.

And for those of you who have never watched Uncle Roger, I highly recommend it, you can watch it on Bilibili actually.

Yeah, that is because he makes sure that he puts his videos on both western video services and Chinese and Asian video services, because he knows his audience is worldwide.

Yeah, exactly. In a funny way, that's observational humor as well.

And a little bit of insult.

Cultural differences, both observational and insult. Have you ever thought of doing stand-up yourself?

God no, I'm rather introverted, as people really seem surprised to hear like, James is introverted? You are a teacher.

And you don't sound introverted at all.

That's the caffeine talking. Yes, it’s like in class I'm not introverted, when I speak in public, yes, I know how to speak in public. But in my private life, I keep to myself.

I think I get the sort of similar comments. I am an extroverted introvert, I actually do prefer to be on my own, but now I have to put myself out there being the content creator, and maybe even in the future not just to educate but also to entertain. We'll see how that goes.

But coming back to the topic of comedy. Apart from making us laugh, giving us entertainment, what do you think is the function of comedy?

I personally think comedy is a tool that we have is at people to work through issues and trauma. Because a lot of these comics they poke fun of things that we may not feel comfortable talking about in everyday conversation, and it can be a cathartic release for it.

So that's why you can hear comics talking about suffering from cancer or other tragedies in turning it into…

…bullying

into humorous ways because it's the way that they are trying to work through their trauma or their difficulties, and by sharing this it might also help other people…

…to come to terms.

Yeah, I think that's a big part of what comedy is forced, to help people work through issues, work through trauma, and realize that bad things happen but we can find a way to laugh and have fun and cope.

And coming back to the comedian that I was talking about before Ali Wong.

She basically does brilliant jokes surrounding childbirth and the trauma that women suffer through childbirth, and I think a lot of female audience they can relate to that, and nobody has ever really put that on stage and talk about it so blatantly.

But comedy does serve that function, but you also hear people especially when they go to see a stand-up comic act, they complain about oh, this is too insulting…

You can’t say that.

…it’s too offensive.

Right.

What is your take on comedy being offensive? When does it stop being funny and become offensive and hurtful?

So in the terms of stopping funny, that's such a subjective thing that's really gonna be from person to person, and there's no way to really control that.

Now when it goes from being like from comedy to actually being hurtful, really depends on the context that it's being used. Is the comic trying to tell a joke, are they not actually disparaging the person, but actually trying to highlight something through the humor, then it should be fair game.

However, if the comic is making jokes for the purpose of actually hurting somebody, then that is going too far. Because I'm always with the views like if you don't like the comic you don't like the jokes, don't listen to it. It’s like there are thousands of comedians out there, and there are ones that you'll like and ones that you don't. There’re ones will tell jokes that you think are in bad taste, and ones that you think are outstanding.

Exactly because within the confines of comedy, they're still allowed to do any of that. They are still allowed to do all of that, because otherwise comedy has no purpose if everything is appropriate, everything is none offensive. There is no comedy.

That's children's TV

Even children's TV nowadays have more spunk to it. But anyhow, like for me, I truly agree with what you said about context. So if I'm in a comedy club, everything's fair game, but if in real life, one joke is fine, but if you keep making jokes that are put down humor, insult humor, I will have issues with it. That's what I mean by context.

I understand that, that makes perfect sense.

As the whole thing, comedy is about pushing boundaries, right? Saying things we normally wouldn't say.

I was gonna say they have the goal to say what a lot of us want to say but dare not say.

All right.

That ends our advanced episode on comedy, stand-up comedy.

If you're a fan of stand-up comedy and have your own views about what we've been talking about, leave us a comment in the comment section. Thank you James for coming to studio.

Thank you for having me again. Thank you for listening, everyone.

We'll see you next time. Bye bye.