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Embo has been a controversial leader charged with mismanaging UNESCO while taking the agency in an anti-Western direction.
联合国教科文组织领导人Embo，一直饱受争议，有人指责他管理不善，未能做到与西方步调保持一致。
The Reagan Administration cited those reasons when pulling the US out of UNESCO in 1984.
1984年，里根政府下的美国从该组织中撤出，援引了那些内容。
Last year, the same charges were behind Britain and Singapore's decision to withdraw.
去年，英国和新加坡也出于相同原因，决定撤出该组织。
Those three defections forced UNESCO to cut its budget by thirty percent and intensified the crisis around Embo's leadership.
这三个国家的撤出迫使该组织的预算缩减了30%，加剧了Embo的领导危机。
Jean Gerard, now US Ambassador to Luxembourg, is the former US delegate to UNESCO.
现任美国驻卢森堡大使Jean Gerard，曾是联合国教科文组织前美国代表。
Gerard recommended the US withdraw, because she felt UNESCO's programs were moving away from international cooperation toward confrontation.
Gerard曾建议美国撤出该组织，因为她觉得该组织各项目正从国际合作转向国际对抗。
"Take, for example, the New World Information Order, where in their documents they say that the press should be an instrument of the state.
“例如，在该组织发布的文件《新世界信息秩序》中，他们说新闻媒体应成为国家的工具。
Now this, of course, is totally contrary to our concept of a free press.
当然，这完全违背了我们新闻自由的理念。
There are more and more programs, which emphasize statist type of solutions to problems.
强调利用统计方法解决问题的项目越来越多。
In education, for example, in the teacher-training program in Afghanistan, it's run solely by Soviet teachers with a Soviet coordinator.
例如，在教育方面，阿富汗教师培训项目，完全由苏联教师和苏联协调员管理参与。
So, in essence, we were paying for the indoctrination of the Afghan people,
所以，从本质上说，我们是在为阿富汗人民的教育买单，
which again is not my idea of what an international organization ought to be doing."
这也不符合我对一个国际组织应作应为的想法。
"To what extent do you think Embo is responsible for the directions that you disproved of in UNESCO?"
“你认为Embo在其中，对你的这些指责负有多大责任？”
"I think some of them, of course, were already there, but I think they have been very much accentuated under his tenure.
“我想，当然，这些问题中有一部分是此前既已存在的，但我认为在他的任期内，这种情况更加恶化了。
And instead of taking the opportunity to reform the organization, to make it work more efficiently and in a more unbiased way, when we gave our notice of withdrawal,
当我们通知该组织撤出时，他并没有利用机会进行组织改革，以使组织更有效公正地运转，
there was a great clamor that there was no crisis and initially very little need for reform aside from some cosmetic reform, and a general resentment of the idea."
有人大声疾呼说，除了一些锦上添花的改革之外，这里没有任何危机，基本从一开始就不需要改革，这一想法引起了普遍不满。
"Can you describe Embo as a leader, what his personality was like, what his characteristics were as a leader?"
“你能否描述一下Embo作为一名领导人的性格，他作为一名领导人有何特点？”
"I would say he's certainly very dynamic.
“他当然很有活力。
He has a great deal of charm, he has a very personal type of management style, and, I think, he tended to take criticism personally.
他魅力非凡，对于管理他自成风格，他总把批评当成是个人恩怨。
When we had discussions with him about the budget, the Assistant Secretary of State and myself in 1983,
1983年，助理国务卿和我与他讨论预算问题，
since we pointed out that his figures were very different from the figures that we had under discussion,
因为我们指出他的数字与我们之前讨论过的数字存在很大差异，
he then said that the United States, in essence, was behaving in a racist manner, that we had deep psychological problems."
他随后说，本质上美国是按照种族主义行事，我们的心理问题很深。
"Do you think his resignation is a sign that UNESCO wants the United States and England back?"
“你认为他的辞职是否意味着联合国教科文组织对美国和英国的召唤？”
"It's not, as I understand it, a resignation.
“据我所知，这不是辞职。
It was a statement saying that he would not seek a third term.
这是一份声明，说他不会谋求第三任期连任。
That does not preclude, of course, some countries from urging him to be the candidate,
当然，这并不妨碍一些国家敦促他成为候选人，
and the Executive Board nominates the candidate to the general conference."
执行委员会也像联合国大会对他进行了候选人提名。
"Do you know if there was any direct pressure on Embo to not seek a third term?"
“你知道Embo有没有受到直接的压力，迫使他无法寻求连任？”
"I know quite a few countries in their governments have been saying that they do not favor his having a third term.
“我知道有不少国家的政府一直在说，他们不赞成Embo连任第三任期。
That includes the Nordics, who went and informed him of that a few months ago. That includes Japan.
这其中也包括北欧人，几个月前他们就把这件事告诉了他。还有日本也包括在内。
And so if you call that pressure, there certainly were several countries that indicated that were not in favor of his having a third term."
因此，如果你把这称之为压力的话，肯定有几个国家对他的连任表示了反对。
"Does Embo's decision to not seek a third term represent a success for the US's decision to pull out of UNESCO?"
“Embo不寻求第三任期连任的决定是否代表美国撤出联合国教科文组织的决定取得了成功？”
"I wouldn't say it in those words frankly. I think it's a pity he didn't take the opportunity to be the champion of reform.
“坦白来说，我不会这么讲。他没有抓住机会实施改革，我觉得很遗憾。
On the other hand, that's his decision."
另一方面，这是他的决定。”
"What would it take for you to recommend to the United States that this country rejoin UNESCO?"
“在何种情况下，你会建议美国重返联合国教科文组织？”
"I think to have a good Director General, to see a serious constructive reform take place both in the management and in the programs.
“我认为除非遇到一个好的总干事，他在管理和项目两方面都进行重大的建设性改革。
I think that's the kind of thing that would influence many people to take another look at it."
我想这会让很多人重新审视这一问题。”
From Luxembourg, Ambassador Jean Gerard, former US delegate to UNESCO.
来自美国驻卢森堡大使，联合国教科文组织前美国代表Jean Gerard。
