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The history of Jews in Poland is not always thoroughly told in that country.
波兰犹太人的历史并没有讲述透彻。
And the story of the World War II freedom fighters in the Jewish ghetto of Warsaw is one of the saddest chapters.
二战时期的华沙犹太贫民区，充斥着为自由而战的勇士，他们的故事最为怅然悲壮。
The Nazis took hundreds of thousands of Jews to their deaths, and seven thousand more died defending the area when the Germans invaded.
数十万人死于纳粹之手，而在德国入侵时，又有七千多名犹太人为了保家卫国献出了自己的生命。
Dr. Merrick Adelman is one of the very few who survived.
马雷克·埃尔德曼医生是极少数幸存下来的人。
A book called Shielding the Flame is his story.
Shielding the Flame讲述了他的故事。
It was written in Poland ten years ago by Hannah Kroll.
该书由汉娜·克罗尔于10年前撰于波兰。
It is now available in this country in English.
其英文版已在波兰发行。
Yohannes Toshimska is one of the translators.
亚哈尼斯·塔什姆斯卡等人翻译了此书。
She says that Merrick Adelman's view of the get to uprising is regarded as unconventional.
她说马雷克·埃尔德曼对于反抗斗争的看法不落窠臼。
"He doesn't use the language, or even he doesn't have the attitude people usually have to the holocaust and to ghetto uprisings.
他不用那种词，甚至人们对于大屠杀，以及犹太区反抗斗争的通常态度，在他那里也难觅踪迹。
One thing he's consistently talking about is the fact that people thought was the arms in the ghetto.
他一直谈论的是人们在犹太区的武装斗争。
It wasn't heroic; it was easier than to die going to the train cars.
这不算是英勇之举；它比坐着火车，前往死亡集中营要容易。
And that people who participated in the ghetto uprising were actually, in a sense, lucky.
在某种意义上，参加了犹太武装斗争的人们实则幸运。
They had arms; they could do something about what was going on while those hundreds of thousands who were led to the train cars were equally heroic,
他们有武器；他们能有所作为，而那些被带上火车的数十万人同样英勇，
but their death was much more difficult."
然而死得更加艰难。
"Dr. Adelman was stationed. He was working in a clinic; he was not a doctor then;
阿德尔曼医生驻扎下来。他在一个诊所工作；那时他还不是医生；
but he was working in a clinic that was nearby the train station where the Jews were taken to go off to the concentration camps."
但是他工作的诊所在火车站附近，犹太人从那里被带进集中营。
"Yes. He had an amazing position. He was standing at the gate to the Hmflat Platz, which was the place from where the Jews were taken into the train cars.
“是的，他的位置极佳。他在赫姆弗莱特广场的入口，犹太人就从那里被带上火车。
He was a member of the underground in the ghetto, and he was choosing the people who were needed by the underground.
他是犹太地下党的一员，他为地下组织挑选需用之人。
They were perhaps one or two in many thousands of them led every day to the cars.
每天成千上万的人被带上火车，他们那一两个人或许就身在其中。
And he would pick these people up, and then young girls who were students at the nurses' school would disabilities these people.
他把这些人挑出来，然后那些在护士学校的年轻女孩就会将这些人弄残。
He describes in the book, it's a very powerful scene, how these girls, who were wearing beautiful clean white uniforms of nurse students,
他在书中描述到，这种场面十分骇人，那些女孩们都是学生，穿着漂亮洁白的护士服，
would take two pieces of wood and with these two piece of wood would break legs off the people who were supposed to be saved for the Jewish underground.
拿着两块木头，用这两块木头打折犹太区地下组织需要拯救的人的腿。
But the Germans, to the last moment, wanted to maintain the fiction that people who were taken to the trains were being taken for work.
但是德国人，直到最后一刻，都在维持这个谎言，谎称他们带人上火车是去劳动。
And obviously a person with a broken leg couldn't work.
显然，一个断腿的人是不能劳动的。
So breaking a leg would temporarily save that person from being taken into gas."
所以断条腿暂时拯救了即将被带进毒气室的人。”
"So he saw in all, I believe he says four hundred thousand people, go aboard the train."
“我相信他说，他总共看到了40万人上了火车。”
"Yes. He stood there from the very beginning of the extermination action to the end."
“是的，从一开始他就在那里，直到灭绝行动结束。”
"With regard to what you were saying earlier, there's a dialogue that develops in the book between an American professor who comes to visit the doctor many years later, and is critical of what happened.
你刚才说，多年后一位美国教授曾拜访过那名医生，书中记述了他们的对话，这对历史至关重要。
He says to the Jews, 'You were going like sheep to your deaths.'
他对犹太人说:“面对死亡，你们就像待宰的羔羊。”
The professor had been in World War II; he'd landed on a French beach, and he said that 'Men should run, men should shoot. You were going like sheep.'
这位教授曾参加过二战；他在法国的海滩上登陆，他说：“男人应该逃跑，男人应该开枪。而你们却像羊一样。”
And Adelman explains this, and let me quote him.
阿德尔曼对此进行了解释，让我引述一下他的话。
It is a horrendous thing when one is going so quietly to one's death.
当一个人静静地走向死亡，该有多么可怕。
It is infinitely more difficult than to go out shooting.
这比遭到射击要困难得多。
After all, it is much easier to die firing.
毕竟，死在枪林弹雨中更容易一些。
For us, it was much easier to die than it was for someone who first boarded a train car, then rode the train, then dug a hole, then undressed naked.'
对我们而言，被枪打死比登上火车，坐上火车，然后挖坑，最后脱光衣服的人死得要容易地多。
That's difficult to understand, but then Hannah Kroll says that she understands it because it's easier for people who are watching this to understand, when the people are dying shooting."
这很难理解，但汉娜·克罗尔说她理解这一点，因为当人们亲眼目睹这一切的时候，一切显而易见。
"It is something probably easier to comprehend because the kind of death most of the people from the ghetto encountered is just beyond comprehension."
“理解这点可能更加容易，因为犹太区里大多数人所遭遇的那种死法让人们难以想象。”
"Explain the context of the title for Shielding the Flame; it comes up a bit later on.
“请解释一下Shielding the Flame这本书的书名，它在后面提及了一些。
It has to do with the reason that Dr. Adelman becomes a physician, a cardiologist, after the War, is that he wants this opportunity to deal with people who are in a life-or-death situation."
这与阿德尔曼在二战后成为医生，成为心脏病专家有关，他想利用这个机会，接触那些命悬一线的人。”
"He says at some point that what he was doing at Hmflat Platz and what he was doing later on as a doctor is like to shield the flame from God who wants to blow this little tiny flame and kill the person,
他说某个时刻，他在赫姆弗莱特广场的所作所为以及他后来作为医生救死扶伤，就像是熄灭那星星之火，而原本上帝就是想将这点星星之火，变成熊熊烈火，将人杀掉。
that what he was doing during the War and after the War was, in a way, doing God's work or doing something against God, even if the God existed."
他在战争期间和战后所做的事情，做的就是上帝的工作，或者违背上帝的事情，即使上帝真的存在。”
"Do you think this book is going to be accessible to the Western reader reading it in English? It is a bit free in form and in style.
“你认为这本书会有西方读者吗? 它在形式和风格上都有些随意。
It lacks a chronology; certain details are not there or are pre-supposed that one knows."
它缺少年代顺序；某些细节不详或会假定读者已经知道。”
"This book is a little bit like a conversation of two people who aren't that much aware of the fact that someone else is listening to it.
这本书有点像两个人的对话，他们不太在意听者。
And they don't care about this other person who might be listening to it.
他们也不关心潜在的听众。
They don't help this person to follow it.
语言晦涩难懂。
I had a hard time even when I read it for the first time in Polish.
甚至，当我第一次阅读这本书的波兰版本时，我很难过。
However, for me, it has magnetic power and, despite the confusion, I always wanted to go back and to go on."
然而，对我来说，它有磁力，尽管困惑，我总想回去继续阅读。”
Yahannes Tashimska, the translator, along with Lawrence Weshler, of Shielding the Flam by Hannah Kroll.
Shielding the Flam，作者汉娜·克罗尔；译者，亚哈尼斯·塔什姆斯卡和劳伦斯·威斯勒。
