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It's not clear-cut by any means and in the case, the cases where
并不是一目了然，非黑即白的在这些我所感兴趣的
I'm interested in again, um happy to talk more afterwards,
案例中，我再说一次我也很乐意之后再继续讨论
was not torture but it's cohered, but it's interrogative,
这不是酷刑，是种紧密联系带有审讯性质的
but it's exploitative interrogation or cohesive interrogation
是种利用式的审讯或者联系性的审讯
there's still a lot of sense that you, that interrogator feels that he's betraying himself
问题是审讯员仍有强烈的感觉有自我背叛之感
because you can't, or she can't in and out of roles so quickly er,
因为没有人可以在这么短的时间内转换自己的角色
there are roles where one person occupies multiple roles, and this person, whether or not
有些人可以同时扮演多个角色但是这个年轻人，不管出于什么原因
it was because he was unseasoned, and hadn't yet become cynical enough,
无论是他没有经验不成熟还没有变得愤世嫉俗
or whatever, um, but he also felt that he when he first started his job that
或者别的原因，他还觉得在他刚开始工作时
he was told "you give up, you leave...," a wonderful quote I have, "You leave your conscience behind and you follow the rules
别人对他说 "你放弃，你.."我把这句话记下来 "你就忘掉自己的良心"只要遵守规则
as if Nuremberg never took place. ""No that's not what I'm going to do" he says,
就当纽伦堡从未发生过"他说 "我不会这么做"
so I take it he was a morally conscientious interrogator and
所以我认为他是个品德正直的审讯者
who would be willing to go so far but the press of what he thought was right even
他愿意付出这么大的代价在如此复杂的利用关系中
in these very complicated exploitative relationships kept him I think from torture or more, or harsher techniques.
追求他认为是正确的东西这种信念让他不对他人使用酷刑或者其他更为严酷的审讯技巧
I found it very, very fascinating and um, and renewing in a certain way of my faith
我觉得非常非常吸引人的是在某种程度上，这让我重新恢复信心
that there could be a kind of interrogation that maybe I, I would never be part of it
让我相信会有一种审讯也许我永远不会参与到其中
but others you know it's a profession that should think very seriously about and understand.
但是其他人可以，这是个需要非常认真考虑和了解的职业
Oh, I'm. Yes Sir. What's the consensus as a psychologist etc generally practise of indefinite detention as a policy?
哦，我 好的，先生心理学家或者其他专家一般认为无限期拘留政策是多长时间?
