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It's partly an effort to regain a sense of control that if I think that I could have done it differently,
这么做的部分目的是重新获得某种掌控感如果我可以用不同的方式
then maybe there's a way to prevent this from happening
也许这件事就不会发生了
I can regain a sense that I'm in charge of my life
我能够重新得到某种感觉，我在掌控自己的人生
but it doesn't make room for anger on it.
根本没有愤怒的空间
I think our anger is much greater and we want to have the person angry and
我认为我们的愤怒感更强我想让他们感到愤怒
sometimes we will gently try to express that there's room for outrage here,
有时候我们会委婉地表达他们可以是暴躁愤怒的
er but we have to go with where they are at and many of them find a certain, um fatalism,
但是我们不得不考虑他们所处的阶段他们很多会相信宿命论
er or a religious kind of er coming to terms with it
或者某种宗教观点来应对痛苦
that moves them in another direction than anger
这会让把他们推上另一个道路，而不是愤怒
but there's others that anger has to be worked through
还有对于一部分人，在愤怒之后
Forgiveness can be a huge issue too that follows from the anger,
接下来，如何原谅别人也是个重大问题
but certainly the anger has to be dealt with.
当然，愤怒也必须得到应对
Um this gentleman in the Um, yeah, the er, well you talked about one kind of torture victim,
这位男士，好的。你谈到了一种折磨的受害者
but you know if you look at the um statement that was issued about 3 weeks ago
但是看一下3个星期以前国家天主教主教委员会发的声明
by the national council of Catholic Bishops, they were very clear in saying that
你就会发现他们非常清晰地表明了
these torture incidents always produce2 kinds of victims,
这些折磨和酷刑常常会产生两种受害者
the one who's subjected to the torture and the torturer as well.
一种是受到迫害的人一种虐待者本人
Er and it strikes me that that's an aspect of this problem
让我不解的是，这个问题的这一方面
that doesn't seem to get discussed as much I mean we have the case of Eric Fair
似乎没有得到充分的讨论我们有艾瑞克?菲尔的案例
who wrote that column in the Washington Post
他为华盛顿邮报写专栏
in which he talked about withdrawal destruction of family.
在其中，他谈到了对家庭的破坏力
He says as he sleeps at night the victim is always with him,
他说，他晚上睡觉时受害者总是和他一起
and we have the events of him committing suicide.
最后他选择自杀了
Um, you want so say a little but about that?
您能具体说明一下吗?
Yeah, I had that in my notes.
好的，我的注释提到了这个问题
Um, some of what's coming out of the studies now um in Iraq of veterans er
现在有些研究，研究去过伊拉克的老兵它们得出的一些结论
which I think has some bearing on this, is finding that there is greater PTSD
我觉得对这个问题也是有意义的研究发现，在某些情况下，创伤后应激障碍
in some instances in the perpetrators of trauma than in the victims of trauma.
在实施创伤的人那里更严重而不是创伤的受害者
