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We didn't know that Leonardo worked on vellum.
我们之前不知道达芬奇有用皮纸来画过画
But once I'd started looking at Leonardo and vellum,
但当我开始看达芬奇和皮纸的联系时...
which is basically parchment.
皮纸一般都是羊皮纸
It's from a calf or kid, in this case or a sheep.
它是用小牛或者小山羊的皮做成的,这一块是用绵羊皮
It's animal skin.
它是用动物的皮做的
We've got no drawings about Leonardo on vellum on animal skin.
我们以前没有发现达芬奇用皮纸画的画
But once you start looking at Leonardo
但当你研究达芬奇的资料时
you can find references in his interest to this
你可以发现他表达过用这种皮纸
as a medium so that becomes important.
作画纸的兴趣,所以这个材质很重要
And all these things add up
这些证据都说得过去
so there's no point at which you say that is absolutely it.
所以没有哪个证据可能让你绝对肯定的
Interviewer: I think the point about it being vellum
我觉得关于皮纸这点
is really interesting.
很有趣
And I wondered if because there's no other works that
我想知道,因为我们没见过达芬奇
we know of which Leonardo worked on vellum,it made a difference
用皮纸画的画,这会不会影响了
in terms of attribution according to technique?
我们根据画法来鉴定的确定性
Whether he's using a different technique here
他在这里是不是因为画纸的原因
because of the material,or if that made harder?
用了不同的画法,还是这反而使它更难鉴定了?
Your initial reaction,a
你的第一个反应
you see a drawing on ink coloured chalks,
当你看到一幅用彩色粉笔画的画
but also ink washes on vellum,
还在皮纸上看到水墨
the initial reaction of course is Leonardo didn't do that.
第一个反应当然是这不是达芬奇画的
It's one reason why it's probably not a forgery,
这也是说明它不是赝品的原因之一
because a forger wouldn't take something that has got that obstacle.
因为赝造者不会赝造有这么大一个障碍的画
So I then started looking at the evidence of drawings
然后我开始研究用彩色粉笔画的画
in coloured chalk.
的证据
And Leonardo picked it up from a French artist
达芬奇从一个法国画家那里学来的
who used it in a very sober way
那个人用得比较少
and developed it to a very high level.
达芬奇研究出了很高的使用技巧
And his pupils,people like Boltraffio,Luini,
他的学生,例如Boltraffio和卢伊尼
all start using coloured chalks.
都开始用染色粉笔来画
The Isabella D'este drawing by Leonardo
达芬奇画的伊莎贝拉·德埃斯特
in the Louvre is partly coloured in chalk.
有一部分就是用粉笔上色的
But I also found a rather famous Leonardo document
我还找到一个很著名的达芬奇文献
which is called Linyi Memorandum.
叫Linyi备忘录
Which was a draft of a Memorandum partly in a sort of code
这是一个部分用代码写成的备忘录草稿
to a French Count Linyi who was with the French Kings
写给一个法国伯爵Linyi 他是法国国王的重臣
he was leader of French forces in 1494 and again in 1499.
在1494年和1499时,他是法国军队的领导
And there's this Linyi Memorandum
我们有这个Linyi备忘录的文献
and there's a very puzzling bit in it which says
里面有一点内容很让人困惑
"Get from Jean de Paris "
从巴黎Jean那里找来了
the method of dry colouring."
干法染色的方法"
And he talks about Jean's box of colours.
他说到Jean的颜料盒
And he talks about
然后他讲到
how could we get many sheets, singles and doubles.
怎么去找很多纸,单层的和双层的
And once you're thinking about vellum
一旦你想到皮纸
and coloured chalks on vellum all of this falls into place.
和在皮纸上用染色粉笔画,这些内容都说得通了
Jean Perreal was the court artist to Charles VIII
Jean Perreal当时是查理八世的宫廷画师
and later Louis XII was in Milan with the French invaders.
后来当了路易十二的画师,并随着法国入侵者去了米兰
Leonardo met Jean,there are a number of references,
达芬奇见了Jean 这有几个文献记载
Jean was an engineer and one of these all round people
Jean是一个工程师,也是那种全才
like Leonardo though to a slightly lesser level.
就像达芬奇那样,不过没他那么厉害
